In my year and a half driving in the Twin Cities, I've seen many Muslim bumper stickers such as "In Allah we trust", or "House of Islam". However, the one I saw the other day was the first of its kind, that I've seen, and a real sign of where we are prophetically. It read "Discover Jesus in the Quran."
To understand the significance of such a bumper sticker, you should know, if you don't already, that Muslims believe that at the End of the Age, Jesus, or Isa as they call Him, will return, but not as the Jewish Messiah, but as a radical Muslim, clearing up the misconceptions about Himself that are central to the Christian faith: namely, that He is the Son of God, God incarnate, that He was conceived of the Holy Spirit, and that He was crucified, buried and resurrected.
A lot more could be said about this here; I highly recommend the book by Joel Richardson titled "Anti-Christ: Islam's Awaited Messiah". This book compares islamic and Christian eschatology, and rightly identifies the coming "Mahdi" of the Muslims as the Anti-Christ spoken of in the Bible. This man, al-Mahdi, is the one who Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad believes himself to be the forerunner of, preparing the way for this world Islamic leader to arise. Anyhow, if you want a copy, you can find it on amazon, and if you need more convincing, I'll even BUY you one, just let me know.
During a recent dialogue with a Muslim friend of mine, he asked if he could invite along another "Christian" friend of his to join us. It turned out this "Christian" friend of his is a Catholic who he has been meeting with and converting to Islam. He was likely allured by the idea of encountering Jesus in the Quran. So, this meeting with the two of them, and seeing that bumper sticker are a wake up call to me. Like Europe, the secularization of our country is making it offensive and unacceptable to believe the Bible. You can have your churches, and your holidays, and even honor Jesus as a humanitarian; but to suggest dogmatically that the Bible is the literal word of God, and that truth is not relative but absolute, that can no longer be tolerated.
Somehow, however, Islam, the most intolerable religion on the face of the planet, slips under the radar screen of the women's rights people, and the gay rights people, and the human rights people. The whole secularized society is duped by Islam's front of being the religion of peace. America needs to wake up! Those who love the lie will be given over, by God, to a spirit of deception, because they loved not the truth, because they loved not God. Already, nominal Christians in America and across the globe are being converted to Islam, which allows them to hold onto some semblance of Jesus Christ, but do not have to be looked at by the world as foolish for believing the Bible to be literal in its account of creation, or in any of its other miraculous and supernatural events. They can hold onto religion, which the soul of man craves, and yet be accepted and tolerated in the world.
My friends, do not be deceived. Without Jesus' shed blood, death, burial and resurrection, there is no salvation. The spirit of Anti-Christ is at work in the world, deceiving the willing, those who love their sin, who love falsehood, The love of the truth will protect you in the end; Jesus Christ is the truth (John 14:6).
39 comments:
Preach it preacher man
You are alert and watching.
Can't say that for many people now days.
B
Thanks Cole. Good word. Jesus is the Messiah!
Cole,
How about doing the work of promoting peace.After all you are what you were born into.So why not study other faiths for the sake of understanding and tolerance.Jesus was given bible in Aramaic a language he spoke.But the bible today is only according to Mark,mathew,john and luke.Where is bible according to Jesus.Seeing that the oldest bible in the museum is in ancient Greek.Jesus said I have come to revive the law.Meaning the law that Moses brought.What is Quran it is the same law more explained of what was given to Moses,Jesus.Muhammad said we(Moses,Jesus) are like brothers from one father and different mothers.As muslim we love and respect Jesus and all biblical prophets.
Cole,
God bless you
you seem to be an intelligent religious man.Something what christians have not done and needs to be done is to revive the mission and ministry of Jesus and establish its link with later religion of Islam for the sake of truth and peace which is what Jesus wanted so much.
What James didn't quite explain.
LIfe of Jesus was short so he could not offer example in every walk of life(father,husband,statesman,leader).
Jesus was sent by God so there was a need for another prophet to come to complete the work.Coming of Muhammad is mentioned in Deutronomy18-18.and other places.As a matter of fact Muhammad's coming is mentioned in almost all religious books but as correctly Muhammad said(in post) people only inherit faith don't always choose it.So people inspite of seeing facts and proofs will still object to it.Surprisingly this is written in Quran as well.
There are few facts that deserve to be known.One,Islam is the only religion outside christianity which has part of faith to love and believe in Jesus and his message.Between Muslims and christians ,it is Muslims who live closer to Jesus.E.g.Jesus said when he met someone Shalamoalaikum as a greeting.Muslims say Salamoalaikum.Jesus abluted and prostated,Muslims do.Jesus never ate pork,Muslims do.Jesus said to beleive in One God,Muslims do.Jesus called God,Eloy,Eloy Muslims call Allah.Now the difference in writing and speaking can be seen when Spanish write Jesus but read Hesus,Muslims say Isa.Eloy is closer to Allah,and Hesus(Latin language,closer to Aramaic than English)is closer to Isa.There are many similarities and differences are also due to similarity in muslims practising faith according to Jesus while christians according to Saint Paul.
Think about it.
in present times we should work for common grounds between Christianity and Islam.Both faiths have half of the mankind adhered to them.An Understanding between them will bring peace between them.One person Dr.Zakir Naik of www.irf.net in India is working just for that.
Cole on the suggestive links it will be wise to post this link as well.www.crescentandcross.com. THis guy works to spread truth while many are afraid to say it.
One thing that surprises me is that we have only one book called Bible in christianity which is neither in original language nor in its original form,changed so much that lost its originality.In Islam there is Quran that is in its original form as given to Muhammad ,in live language(the word of God)then there is Hadith which is the set of books that contain what Prophet Muhammad said,did,opined,his decisions etcetc.Also there is biography of Muhammad from birth to death(Called seerah).Now for the sake of God and the message he sent through his various prophets ,Is it not right to study Islam.An information,complete and true.
Show me in the bible if this is written.
Jesus said:Worship me or
Jesus said:I am GOd or
Jesus said:I am son of God or
word trinity or word christianity.
Let us do some intellectual research rather than a parot like repetititon without understanding.
Today christianity has two basis(Jeus not being around)and are church and bible.Unfortunately church has so much interpretations that the teachings of church are in contradiction to teaching of bible.Bible per se,if you like can't be trusted.Jehovas witness write in their magazine"Awake" in Spe 8,1957 issue there are 50,000 errors in King James version.The point is how does any one know that there are not more?How can some one trust any part of bible when others have been found to have errors.In court of law a testimony will be rejected in its entirity if a part of it is found to be false.Yes or No.So why not in case of bible.I encourage my christian brothers if they believe in God,the creation to be intelligent to read Quran.Knowledge never hurted anyone wouldn't hurt you.
May Allah bless you.(by the way this is the word that Jesus said)
One should take every effort to investigate some claim or statement but once it is found to be truth then one should be fair,honest and bold enough to accept it.Islam is the religion that Adam came with,it is the religion(belief in one God and accountability due to good deeds,and thus reward in paradise or punishment in hell) that Jesus preached.It is after realising this that christian priests and pastors are coming to Islam.On Youtube I invite you to see for yourself.Type these names,yusuf Estes,Gary Miller,Jerald Dirks.These are some of the christian pastors highly educated who have accepted Islam.Just think alone and ask yourself why.Were they given some reward for it or were they pressured or were they inquisitive about God and what he wants us to do.Be fair to yourself.Just yourself.
I think that you will all find this article very interesting and gives tons of info regarding the "Jesus in Quran" movement.
joiepirkey.wordpress.com
I strongly believe one should be open to the truth and it can be found only after thorough investigation of facts after research.
I invite all my christian brothers and sisters to watch an Islamic TV,free,type in google"Peacetv.tv".Here you listen to lot of useful info about the commoness between christianity and Islam and the reason why muslims love and respect.Is there any christian who loves Muhammad as part of his faith?
When I first saw this article, it got me interested. Until I reached the part " Muslims believe that at the End of the Age, Jesus, or Isa as they call Him, will return, but not as the Jewish Messiah, but as a radical Muslim, clearing up the"
Your radical Christians are the one who's killing Muslims and helping jews in killing Muslims so you prepare for own version "of second coming"
So please spare us your stupid analysis,never attempt to analyze Islam if you're not Muslim and don't recommend a book about Islam by non-Muslim.
What a joke, huh
It always is good to learn and learn from original source otherwise it could be waste of time and effort.While a correct knowledge is blessing wrong knowledge is misleading and useless or contributing to misunderstanding.
For our christian country men it is important to know about Islam.
You can read on www.islamguide.com and you can watch Islamic TV ,24 hours a day free on internet.Just google "Watch Peace TV on Line".This TV talks about what is common between christianity and Islam.
Let us work towards tolerance and thus peace.
Isiah1:18,says "Come let us reason together.That means both sides on the issue of God and faith talking with reasoning and logic.For that we need knowledge.I recommend my christian brohers to visit www.bridgetofaith.com and www.shareislam.com.
To Mr. Douglas Abdullah:
I got your recent comment and accidentally deleted it rather than posting it; I apologize. Here, below, is Mr. Abdullah's comment, dated Jan. 16th:
Dear brothers and sisters in love and respect for Jesus.
Knowledge should be always welcome.Islam is the only religion that has
made an article of faith to love and respect Jesus.No muslim is a
muslim if he doesn't.
In todays world and times well almost like always,appreciation for
correct knowledge can bring peace.
For christians a good website is www.gainpeace.com
In it there is www.thedeenshow.com that has many epsiodes of different
christians who tell why they were thirsty for truth and how they came
to find it in Islam.
Thanks for sharing the link, but argg it seems to be offline... Does anybody have a mirror or another source? Please answer to my post if you do!
I would appreciate if a staff member here at coleries.blogspot.com could repost it.
Thanks,
Alex
Islam is as muslims say correctly the ontinuation of work of Jesus.Jesus himself prophesied of coming of "another comforter" when he leaves who will speak the words as are put in his mouth.Prophet Muhammad was given Quran and he spoke and his disciples memorised and then wrote it.Today Quran is word for word what was given to Prophet.All over the world and in all sects and all times same Quran.
Read it.
God bless you.
I found this blog after searching google for the bumper sticker I saw last week. This is my response to the comments.
Ramesh: Jesus's purpose in life was not to refine the rules by which people were living. He was not sent to show the need for another after him, or else he would not have said "the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing," (John 6.36) or "It is finished" (John 19.30).
Deuteronomy 18.18 speaks of all prophets of God. If Jesus was merely a prophet, then you did not listen to the words he said when he told people to believe in him or else perish, a high claim for "a man." Verse 22 explains how to decipher whether his words come from YHWH/God/Allah or not. Additionally, John 6.44-45 and John 15.16 (Jesus's own words), and I Corinthians 2.14 explain what you say in regard to objecting to God's truth.
Anonymous (12.26.08): Jesus rebuked the religious leaders for performing rituals according to the law while their hearts grew hardened against the will of God. If Christians are contrasted by being said to live according to Paul, we would not be called Christian but "Paulian." As it is, Paul lived according to Jesus's teaching, so even if some of us do live like Paul, that is living like Jesus. John 15.20b-c: "'If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey your teaching also.'"
Donna: Peace on earth was not the peace spoken of in the Scriptures. Peace cannot exist on earth because of the presence of sin. The earth as we know it will one day be destroyed for this reason.
Additionally, Christianity and Islam view each other as incorrect. There cannot be peace between such conflicting worldviews.
Jerry: Jesus stated that the Scriptures prophesied of his ancestry, his birth, his suffering, his eternal existence; namely Isaiah 49-55, as well as Genesis 22.1-18, Exodus 12.1-30, Joshua 5.13-15, Psalm 2, Psalm 22, Isaiah 7.14, Isaiah 35.5-6, Jeremiah 23.5-6, Joel 2.28-32, Zechariah 9-13, Micah 5.1-5. Jesus fulfilled many of his own prophesies in addition to all those written by Moses and the Prophets regarding him. He is recorded as saying he will come again, and so warns his disciples of false prophets to follow him. The Scriptures tell us how to determine whether someone is a false prophet. What is the "message he sent through his various prophets" if the fulfillment of that message in Jesus's life is ignored?
Abdul: John 10.24-37 describes such an instance. Verse 33: "'[We are stoning you] for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.'" Verse 36b-37: "'Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, "I am God's Son"? Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does,'" which ties to Deuteronomy 18.14-22. John 6.38, 41-42, 51, 58: Jesus claims to have descended from heaven. John 3.13: "'No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.'" John 8.58: "'I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!'" Exodus 3.14: God calls Himself "I am." John 5.46: "'If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.'" Numbers 12.8a: "'With [Moses] I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the LORD,'" God manifest, for the face of God the Father cannot be seen (see Exodus 33.20). John 10.28b: "'...no one can snatch them out of my hand.'" Isaiah 43.13: "'Yes, and from ancient days I am he. No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act, who can reverse it?'" John 5.22-23: "'Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.'" Jesus affirmed that he is this Son, and so he basically said here "worship me as you do the Father." Other passages: Micah 5.2-5a; Matthew 16.16-17, 28.18; Mark 14.61b-62; Luke 4.17-21, 22.67-70; John 2.5-12, 5.24-32, 36-40, 7.27b and 9.29, 8.23-26, 9.35-37.
Also, the word "Trinity" denotes the nature of God (as the Creator, the Spirit and the Word in one being). Scripture talks about these three aspects of God (an exceptional verse: John 14.26); that is the reason for the term's usage today. The unity of 3 in 1 is not uncommon in this world (e.g., an egg at conception is father, mother and child). Genesis 1.26 says "'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness."
And the word "Christianity" may not be there, but "Christians" is in Luke's second book, Acts 11.26c. It was originally an insult, these "little Christs."
Anwar: Christianity has one basis, Jesus, being God. The Bible is his Word and the Church is his Bride.
Do you read the Bible in order to refute what it says? Or do you read it for the purpose of knowledge? Wisdom and understanding is not given to all. Any one may read about another worldview and still learn nothing from it.
Muhammad (08.14.09): Many who claim to be Christian are not, so for them to "leave the faith" is understandable. Adam's "religion" was a physical relationship, which he and his wife forfeited when they brought sin into the world. Because of that presence of sin, no amount of good deeds can earn a place in God's perfect paradise. Because of that sin, every man stands condemned to death (see Ecclesiastes). Because of that sin, Jesus took it upon himself. And because Jesus did this, man is bought, man is saved, man is cleansed and renewed.
Abdullah: I strongly believe the truth can be found only after being shown it by God. Christians love and respect Jesus as Son of God. Muslims, as I've come to understand by these comments, love and respect Jesus as man of God. There is a massive difference in both those claims and the form of love being shown.
Anonymous (10.23.09): Never attempt to pass on advice that you yourself aren't following. Should I judge all Muslims based on your hateful response? By no means. I found no hate in the phrase "radical Muslim," not because I'm Christian, but because I read "radical" as synonymous to "devout." In your response, however, the keyword follows "radical." What makes a person Christian is not that they say they are; it is shown by their heart. If people are killing Muslims, this is not an action supporting of God.
Abdul Basit: It is true, it is important to know about other cultures and worldviews, but it is equally important not to be swayed by them. For all that Christianity and Islam may share in likeness, they make very distinct claims about Jesus. "Peace on earth" was never a promise, and because of the presence of sin it is not possible. Also, you can tolerate someone and still disagree with everything they say.
jamal: Isaiah 1.18-19: "'Come now, let us reason together,' says the Lord, 'Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land; but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword.' For the mouth of the Lord has spoken." That's God reasoning with man, wiping away his sins by the blood of a scapegoat, His Son.
Syzygy.,
It is interesting to read all what you said.I also googled about the sticker and found it.I am a Hindu and want to learn about different faith.Christianity seems attractive as God came to give his life for man.But it gives birth to many questions.Why God had to give his life and not forgive man when he is said to be all forgiving?
You call God to be son of God while he never himself said "I am God or worship me"The word Christian or trinity never came from the lips of Jesus.While trinity is a corner stone of christianity.I see that Muslims are closer to what Jesus taught and preached than christians.Then most important request.Can you get me or tell me where I can get the gospel/bible from where Jesus taught.Don't tell me he taught from this english language bible written by Mathew,Mark,Luke and John.
Thanks.
syzygy.
You asked if I read Bible for knowledge or to rrefute it.
Well you don't know that all Muslims believe in Jesus,his miracles,his mission ministry being a messiah.No Muslim is a muslim if he doesn't believe in it.But the difference comes in when we muslims keep sayings Jesus above that of others like Paul.We belive that Jesus was the best human being at his time no one could be better than him.As we believe that no one was better than Muhammad in his time and saying of Muhammad are above and better than all others.
We believe that gospel/bible has word of God(through prophets including Jesus)but it also contains history and sayings of others besides Jesus.As for authenticity of bible now more and more christian scholars are doubting it,one notable is Prof of religious study in NC university.
His info:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/the-bible-telling-lies-to_b_840301.html?ref=fb&src=sp#sb=1516683,b=facebook
Knowledge never hurts.IF you are sincere in worshipping the creator of this universe called God then you should ask him directly for guidance but if you are worshipping his creation like prophets/messengers etc etc then you are not any different than any Hindu etcetc.
barkha: In reading, studying and cross-referencing the passages in the bible, one is able to answer many questions. Paul's letter to the Romans methodically explains "why God had to give his life" and why that sacrifice IS His forgiveness. Paul was a Jewish scholar, so his words have much historical authority. Perhaps you're right. In the mind of a human, a simple "I forgive you" from a God who cannot lie holds the same weight, right? But throughout the bible, from beginning to end, God uses symbolism, and riddles, and answers that are not always straightforward because, as some passages also explain, you're not supposed to understand it all on your own. You're meant to ask His help, you're meant to depend on Him, you're meant to humble your own thinking and see things His way. And so, when God's Son died for mankind, it was symbolic of the lambs Hebrews sacrificed on altars to atone for their sins; it was symbolic of the faith of Abraham (father of Judaism and Islam) when told to slay his son on the altar; it was symbolic of the separation of Adam and Eve from the pure relationship with the Father. Why did God have to give His life? Because the penalty for sin (disobedience, an ignorance of God and good and love and life) is death. Even when God took Abraham's faith and spared him his son, a sacrifice was still made that day. Jesus took the sin of the world and condemned it to hell; if he had not, forgiveness would not be understood by man.
Though it is not recorded that Jesus spoke the words "I am God," context (which, if you read ANYTHING without understand context, you are only hurting your own understanding) reveals that he in fact did; else those who ultimately condemned him to death would not have had reason to do so. So to say Jesus didn't claim to be God is to say he wasn't killed on a cross.
What is "Christian" but a Greek word meaning "follower of Christ," or "disciple." Obviously the latter was spoken by Jesus in his native tongue, so just because the word "Christian" did not exist during Jesus's life does not infer that to be Christian is ungodly. It's a simple understanding of synonyms.
James, Paul, Mark, Matthew, Philemon, Luke, Timothy, Titus, Peter, Jude and John wrote in Koine Greek. Why so many people feel a translation away from the original is so blasphemous I'll never know, because in fact a single language was frowned upon at the Tower of Babel. A translation allows people of the world to understand history and purpose, because, believe it or not, not everyone is capable of learning more than one language. That being said, if you truly want to know Jesus's teaching, all you need to do is ask God. For Jesus is alive, as are his words. They pass through generations, they speak to the heart, they live in the Spirit, and if the Spirit lives in you, there is a direct connection between you and God that daily and continually teaches and leads and guides, that no book, Christian or Jewish or Muslim or Hindu, can cause you to doubt. The Spirit of the LORD is His omnipresence. The Son of God is Him incarnate, in word and flesh. God Almighty is His omniscience. Each of these appears in the old testament, as well as the new. These exist apart from angels and prophets and fallen angels and nature. If this is not clear after a thorough reading of the bible, then the Spirit is not in you, and rightly so: If you refuse to believe something, it will not make sense to you.
If you are Hindu, what is your motivation to learn about different faiths? If it is merely to "make sense" of it, do you think that would be enough to change from a religion you've known and studied enough to claim a part in it? I understand that Christianity is complex and easy to misunderstand and difficult to take entirely on faith alone, but personally, that does not make it less attractive to me. In fact, the less it agrees with the common ideals and notions of the world, the more I seek it out.
Syzygy!
You asked me why I want to read about bible and different faith.Well one studies different professions,leaves one and goes in better.Why can't be same true in this area.In US like in my old country there are many faith and I believe if people chose faith rather than inherit it the world would have been more tolerant place!
If I was narrow minded I would have said I am right in my faith without even having studied other faiths.But I am not so.
You say Paul was a jewish scholar so his words have much historical authority.Well why you forget he in the life of Jesus was a bounty hunter on Chrisitans.After his departure he suddenly not only claimed that he saw a dream but based on it filled the empty spot in group of disciples (which James is suspicious of)and took over all of them and even started to negate the words of Jesus.And even more surprising that Christians give him more importance than Jesus.
Any person can understand that powerful jews didn't like Jesus because he used to correct them and their evils.So how come this is not possible that Paul was a mole implanted to destroy his work immediately after his leaving scene?
I strongly feel that faith is not a field of thought that one can "choose" to believe or not. Unlike sciences or history or religion, which are areas to explore and study in order to be corrected, I believe faith is akin to art or music or song, to be studied to understand the basis of it, not to change one's feelings about it. I do not believe faith can be inherited. Religion and culture, maybe, but faith is a piece of the heart, born in a person and unique to every individual.
Faiths are not a thing to compare. I feel, in order for someone to claim to belong to an ideology or worldview or religion or even to a science, they do inherently believe it is right.
The book of Acts concurs that Paul (Saul) actively persecuted Christians, as would any continuing Jewish mind of his time who was blind to the Scriptures that foretold Jesus's life. I do not forget, but I forgive. I know that today God alone can heal a man of a lifetime of sin, so it is not a question that he changed Paul so that he would risk his life for a belief worth dying for. I do not believe he filled an empty spot in the disciples. If it is the Twelve you are referring to, I believe that Judas Iscariot was replaced two years prior to Saul's conversion.
If Paul has negated the words of Jesus, then I believe it is because you and I have different ideas of what Jesus has said. And if anyone holds Paul above Jesus, I do not call that person a Christian so easily as you do. Remember, titles have meanings. Not all people claiming to be Christian even remotely believe the same thing. It is unfortunate, but true.
I believe in the Holy Spirit as surely as he breathes in me. I see the new testament as guided by the Spirit acting through believers of God. Paul did not destroy Jesus's work. Through the Counselor which Jesus foretold, Paul upheld God's teaching and spread His Word throughout the Gentile world, as even in the old testament God had planned. Do not hold against James or any other Jewish Christians a doubt they have for another man's calling. It is a flaw that people often judge others instead of keeping focus on righting their own paths with God.
These conversations prove to me that one cannot study another faith, for I feel I am being lectured on what I believe by people who hold the common misconceptions of my faith. In other words, it's as though you and they presume to know more about my beliefs than I. Like art and music, one cannot gain as soulful an appreciation of another genre simply by reading what others have written about it. It is something that must be practiced wholeheartedly, genuinely, spiritually.
Syzygy,
Then from your understanding one should only inherit the faith just like color of the skin or the last name.If this is the case then how come one faith thinks it is better than other and its duty is to save the rest?Even the bible says come let us reason together.But why?Reasoning doesn't means always winning but it sure means always being realistic and flexible for accomodation.
Have you read the bible from cover to cover?
First and foremost, Bart Ehrman is not a Christian scholar. Apparently, he is a self-proclaimed agnostic for a reason most widely misunderstood by many people today (the reason for suffering). It seems that, because he stumbles on one issue, rather than try to comprehend it he would prefer to dismantle the authority of the source of his pain. It seems, like many people today, he has read the bible expecting it to fit into the puzzle of his mindset; instead, people are meant to read the bible and build their puzzle around it. He was insulted by I Timothy 2.15, which he misinterpreted. The passage ties back to the punishment of Eve as dealt by God in Genesis 3.16. Many people struggle with the sexism of the bible, but for some reason they only focus on the submission of women in the church, and to their husbands. They conveniently ignore the hand-in-hand submission of women to God, and the submission of men to God, and the self-like love of men toward wives reciprocated with respect--and most importantly, that all of these acts of submission are to be done in love. There is a chain of command: children under parents, wife under husband, sheep under shepherd, and all under God. It seems that Ehrman seeks to gain followers in his line of thought by increasing their anger toward words taken out of context--which, if I were a weaker person, I might fall victim to.
Ehrman argues that, if a person is lying about their identity (in order to get their words published/spread, I would add), all of the words they write, under that false name, are lies and none of them are to be taken as otherwise. The Scriptures, however, tell a reader to cross-reference words (spoken or written) among passages to determine their veracity.
The basic pretense for many of the disputes regarding original authorship is that some letters "claiming" Paul's signature are not congruous with words it had been "proven" he wrote elsewhere. Does a person continue to hold the same ideas throughout their life, or does one change, refine or replace some of them? Cannot one letter (written to a separate audience, regarding different issues or written at a later time) differ partially or significantly even if penned by the same author? If one letter offers a foothold to question the authorship, are the words contained in it any less truthful? Should we argue over who was holding the pen to the point where we stop listening to the words that were writ? Why does everyone who's convinced the bible is false and, rather than simply ignore it, endeavor to prove this to the world--why is it that the first thing they do is bring the perspective away from God? They don't even mention Him. They speak on topics of oppression and slavery and submission and truth, when none of these have any meaning without understanding that the world was made by and for God. The questions of truth in biblical passages is whether, at heart, they are godly. Ehrman's words are clearly ungodly, so from a biblical perspective...that means...
In response to your words, I believe knowledge can hurt, to a certain definition of "hurt." As Paul explains in Romans, through the law came the knowledge of sin, the knowledge of doing wrong (that is, not adhering to the law given). That knowledge hurts a person's way of life. As for me personally, knowledge has just hurt me: That article is quite disheartening to read, to know that someone out there actually thinks these things about my faith. Depending on a person's mind when they read something, knowledge can lead to hatred or anger, both of which can obviously spark rash actions. What is a war but a conflict of interests brought about by the knowledge of those interests by an opposing side? Knowledge helps to the extent that someone wants to receive help; knowledge hurts when someone doesn't want to accept something.
Well,what you said,needs to be backed by proof otherwise it is worthless.I have these questions.
Can you show me gospel/Bible from which Jesus preached.Surely he didn't preach from this english language bible written by Mark,Mathew,Luke and John.Even if that bible is in museum.And Jesus was a learned man.Not illiterate like Muhammad.
Also Do you know that there are around 4000 versions of bible?
Do you know there are around 36000 denominations of christianity.
If a religion is devoid of logic,evidence and reasoning and spirituality then it is reduced to cult of personality worship which is what Chrisitianity today is.Thats why people are leaving it to Hinduism,Atheism,Islam etcetc,You name it.If you are not worshipping God and directions he gave you then haven't you wasted your time so far.Shouldn't you now be serious and search for God and pray that he guides you?
Why then your fellows in faith take it upon themselves to convert the whole mankind into christianity?
They are wrong any way because they know well they don't have reasoning,logic and teachings of Jesus with them.So they use the approach of spreading christianity with sword.,like in whole North,Central and SOuth America,whole Australia,NewZealand,Liberia,continent of Africa.
I mean is there any even any christian who will admit to this evil,they go to countries and conquer it ,kill men,rape women and then send the clergies who come with bread in one hand and bible in the other saying "Jesus died for you sins" and convert people.I mean is there any morality left in Christianity.?
Barkha: Faith is not inherited like the physical features of a man; it is written in his heart whether he is open to knowing something or not. It is the Christian mission, as given by God, to spread the Word to all peoples. This does not mean every person can and will accept it, but no matter how they take it, we do it because God commissioned us to. What good is love if kept to oneself? Love is as much the action as the feeling inside, and so we show love as God commands.
If you're going to quote the bible, please have the decency not to take it out of context, as I'm sure you'd feel the same if I misquoted what you respect as holy. Where it says "let us reason together," God Himself is talking to man. It has nothing to do with the "reasoning" of men with each other in modern arguments such as this. Interesting that you should quote that verse, though; it is the very promise which Jesus Christ fulfilled in his resurrection.
I don't know what you have against the bible. It's inspired, but the words within it are not limited to the original scratchings on parchment nor the modern-day translation that have resulted from them. God's Word has always stood, even before Moses wrote the Pentateuch. Whether or not either of us has read it speaks no depth of the person's heart. God's Spirit in a man determines his worth.
You ask for proof, but it does not matter to me whether you find worth in my answers. You may say you need "proof" in order to believe something, but how plainly must God speak for someone to call it proof? My beliefs are proven in the everyday experiences in my life, as I'm sure you find in your perspective. This defense I've typed over months is the summation of my personal beliefs, and your denial of any of it to be true is the precise proof I use for the logic and validity of the bible, so for that, at least, I thank you.
But I will humor you with the answers you seek. Surely as you deny it, the Greek gospels as presently translated to English speak the story of God reasoning among men, ironically what you yourself quoted earlier. Jesus did not have to write his own rendition for people to honor him with a biography. The sole reason you do not wish to accept this is because God's Spirit has not opened your eyes to it. Just as I could read your holy book and not understand a single part of it solely because I'm not open to its core claims. Just as I could read a scientific article on quantum mechanics and come away with no greater knowledge solely by my lack of interest to know even the basics on which its concepts stand. This does not deny truth where it is present, but neither does it become self-validated.
I do know there are numerous versions of the bible, and as many denominations as there are Christians. You may insult my faith to the extent that pleases you; you may claim that people are "leaving" when it is my understanding that one cannot leave anymore than one can join; you may quote God's very words and twist them like the serpent in the garden--and my faith will be strengthened. This is by the power of God. If you are trying to dissuade me from my beliefs, your attitude is not loving, and so it is proven not of God.
June 4:
I do not know of whom you speak when you claim Christianity is being spread by the sword. Christianity, by definition, follows Christ. Christ, by definition, is God's Messiah. God, by definition, is Love. If you are so blind to believe the people killing in this way are Christian and are acting in fulfillment of God's will, then yes, there is no morality left in the Christianity you and only you believe in. In the past, my faith once allowed national exterminations, and when taken in context, such actions made more sense than to allow their continuation. Presently, however, I do not know any Christian who spreads God's Word in the manner you describe. It would be hypocritical, and so, un-Christian. Isaiah 29.13: "'These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips,/ but their hearts are far from me./ They worship me in vain;/ their teachings are merely human rules.'"
You seek reasoning and logic, but of man. I Corinthians 1.22-25: "Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength." James 3.13-18: "Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such 'wisdom' does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice./ But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness." The problem is, the proof you're looking for is deliberately invisible. Good deeds often go unnoticed because humility is a virtue, a fruit. The evil deeds that you somehow confuse with Christian conversion sound boastful at the least.
Barkha: Faith is not inherited like the physical features of a man; it is written in his heart whether he is open to knowing something or not.It is Christian mission, as given by God, to spread the Word to all peoples.
THIS IS WHERE PROBLEM COMES IN,WHEN YOU PREACH YOU DON'T WANT TO WASTE TIME,YOU WANT TO GET RESULT.YOU SAY THAT IT IS WRITTEN IN HIS HEART MEANING THAT OF THOSE WHO DIDN'T HAD WERE TREATED UNJUSTLY?IS GOD THEN UNJUST?BUT SURELY WHEN YOU USE HOOK OR CROOK TO ACHIEVE THE GOAL YOU ARE THE ONE WHO INSULTS TEACHINGS OF JESUS.
JESUS WAS CREATED BY GOD SO JESUS SAID THE FIRST COMMANDMENT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT AND GOD IS ONE.HE DIDN'T SAY I AM GOD NOR WORSHIP ME.
THEN YOU SAY THAT BIBLE IS INSPIRED.HOW CAN IT BE INSPIRED WHEN IT IS WRITTEN BY ONE MAN NAMED PAUL WHO WAS ENEMY OF JESUS AND HIS TEACHINGS IN LIFE AND WHO WORKED TO DESTROY THE MISSION OF JESUS.HE SAYS AND PREACHES DON'T FOLLOW THE LAW WHILE JESUS SAYS I COME FOR NOT BUT TO REVIVE THE LAW.
WHEN YOU SAY BIBLE IS INSPIRED,ACTUALLY THE ORIGINAL BIBLE IS LOST.NO ONE HAS IT.AMONG HINDU FAITH,VEDAS IS THERE SOMEWHAT ALTERED BUT BIBLE IS COMPLETELY GONE.
I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST JESUS NOR CHRISTIANITY BUT WHEN I SAY TO A CHRISTIAN THAT THIS IS WHAT THE TAUGHT THEY SAY NO.HE TAUGHT THERE IS ONE GOD,THAT DO GOOD DEEDS.YES HE WAS NOT A COMPLETE ROLE MODEL BECAUSE HE WAS NEITHER A FATHER NOR HUSBAND.NOR A HEAD OF STATE NOR A WARRIOR.HE WAS LIKE A SAINT,A PREACHER BUT SURELY GOD SENT AND A MESSIAH IE.WITH A MISSION TO CORRECT THE LAW THAT WAS CHANGED BY JEWS.
LET US KEEP HIM ABOVE OTHERS OF HIS TIME.YOU NOT ONLY KEEP OTHERS AT PAR WITH HIM BUT PUT THEM(PAUL)ABOVE HIM.THEN YOU SAY OTHERS INSULT HIM AND HIS TEACHINGS.
IT IS ACTUALLY ONE'S DEEDS THAT GIVE HIM WORTH IN FRONT OF GOD BECAUSE WITH GOOD DEEDS ONLY WE KNOW HE HAS THE BLESSING OF GOD'S DEEDS,ONE WHO IS DOING ONLY EVIL AND STILL SAYS HE HAS GOD'S SPIRIT MAY BE ACTUALLY UNDER THE CONTROL OF DEMON.IT IS ONLY GOOD DEEDS THAT MAKE HIM GOOD BUT WHEN YOU SAY 'JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS' AND GET A LICENSE TO DO ALL, UNAPPROVED BY BOTH GOD AND HIS MESSENGER JESUS THEN YOU ARE USING HIS NAME TO DO THE WORK OF DEMON.HOW SAD.
Christianity, by definition, follows Christ.
IS THIS SO?
JESUS SAID GOD IS ONLY ONE.
JESUS SAID DO GOOD DEEDS.
JESUS SAID THAT I CAME TO REVIVE THE LAW.
SO FROM WHERE CAME JESUS IS SON OF GOD,AND YOU DIE FOR HIS SINS AND THUS WITHOUT ANY ACCOUNTABILITY YOU ENTER KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
SAD TRUTH IS THAT TODAY WHAT IS PRACTICED HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TEACHINGS OF JESUS.MAY BE THATSWHY COMMUNISTS SAID THAT RELIGION IS OPIUM(AS IT KEEPS YOUR REASONING,LOGIC ANALYSIS NUMB)hOW MUCH RIGHT THEY WERE.SURELY THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT,AFTERALL THEY ALSO FOLLOWED THE SAME FAITH.
GOOD LUCK.CONTINUE IN THIS BUT AT THE TIME OF JUDGEMENT THESE EXPLANATIONS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BAIL YOU OUT.
Once again, I don't know who you're referring to. Not wanting to waste time? People are treated unjustly? Please be more clear of whom you're talking about.
Secondly, if Jesus did not call himself God, then the Jews would have no reason to have him crucified. True that he did not ask to be worshiped by always, in everything, pointed to the Father. Genesis 1: God, whose Spirit hovered over the waters, whose Word brought forth everything into existence and communed with the prophets. Throughout the Old Testament and New, God has authority, a Spirit, and a message. That does not make Him multiple entities any more than it does humans who have mind, body and soul.
Thirdly, the Bible was not written by one man; not even agnostic skeptics can agree with that claim. The Old Testament was written by Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, etc.; the New Testament was written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, James, Peter and Jude. The writing styles are unique, but the message is always the same. To deny that Jesus is the Christ is to ignore all that God's Spirit has inspired to be written throughout the millennia, for the reality of the Messiah was prescribed by the words of the ancient prophets, and Jesus was alive long before he was born of a virgin in Bethlehem.
Matthew 5.17-18: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For I truly tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." John 19.30: "When he had received the drink, Jesus said, 'It is finished.' With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." The Mosaic law was broken countless times by the Jews. Because of thise, God revealed the need for a Messiah, as one to pay the penalty for that broken law. Paying for that penalty did not reinstate the law; rather, as God spoke through Jeremiah: "'The time is coming,' declares the LORD, 'when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was their master,' declares the LORD. 'This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time,' declares the LORD. 'I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, "Know the LORD," because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,' declares the LORD. 'For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.' This is what the LORD says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar--the LORD Almighty is his name: 'Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,' declares the LORD, 'will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me.' This is what the LORD says: 'Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done,' declares the LORD."
The word "inspire" means "to breathe into." Man is quite literally inspired by the Breath (Spirit) of God. The Scriptures, though written by man, were guided by the Spirit of God, and hence "inspired." The original Bible is not lost; rather, the original letters and documents may be. The scrolls assimilated into the New Testament--dated to be written within the first century in the year of our Lord--are convincing enough for me to believe they are written by those who signed them, and the words contained in them reinforce those thoughts conveyed throughout other epistles, prophet-writings, and the Pentateuch--which means, they all have the same Spirit. However, lacking an original is hardly enough to disprove the existence of God, who has declared His presence throughout time and continues to do so.
I do not--and every Christian I know does not--"keep others at par with him," because he is self-proclaimed and was prophesied to be God, neither especially do we "put Paul above him," who himself states that Jesus is greater than he.
Jesus upheld doing good deeds for the sake of loving God and loving others. This does not mean, nor has God's Word ever said, doing good deeds is how one achieves paradise. Enoch of Genesis 5, Abraham and other Hebrew fathers lived by faith; they were not commended for what they did, but that they trusted God. Good deeds without faith makes one just as dead as faith without good deeds. Jesus did not command doing good at the expense of believing him to be God's Messiah, sent to redeem man of his sins by taking them to the grave, and by God's power to be resurrected, because--as God--as he claimed--he is alive.
You are right in saying "a license to do all [is] using his name to do the work of demon." I agree 100% with that. True Christians believe 100% that one does not have a license to do anything and everything they wish. If you had read Paul's writings instead of blindly condemning them, you might actually agree with him when he says, "Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!"
God created man sinless. That was heaven: a relationship in the presence of God. Since sin came into the world, few have gone into that presence. Since the law was established with Moses and the people of Israel, sin became more prevalent. Since the writings of the prophets, hope looked forward to the one to bring a new covenant. Since Jesus's life, death and resurrection--all three being fulfillments of prophecies--guilt no longer holds man, and he is invited to enter that presence under one requirement: faith. Actions do not get one into heaven, so that no one can brag about having earned his way; pride is the original sin and has no place in heaven. One must be humble, accept that they did nothing but God did everything so that they could enter heaven, and they shall. Heaven is not a reward; it's a gift.
Christianity is not a religion; it is a faith. It is not a set of rules; it is a relationship with God. It is not crafted by men; it is ordained since the creation of the world. Christians share common ground with Israel. "The righteous will live by faith."
John 14.6-7a: "Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well.'"
If you wish to know the teachings of Jesus, ask him yourself. For truly, the law is written on our hearts.
Show me the gospel from which Jesus taught(Of course he didn't teach from English bible written by some anonymous scholars who use on every book,according to Mathew,according to Mark,Acccording to Luke,according to John.
And I will accept christianity.If you can't then you should read Quran impartially even if you do with intention of finding faults.Because Quran challenges its reader to do that.
Here is the link.
You can read it on line as well.Here is the link.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=saheeh%20international%20quran%20pdf&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamwb.com%2Fquran%2Fquran-sahih-international-english-translation&ei=yjbGUMqZC8bq0QHczoHgDQ&usg=AFQjCNEIEQK59Yl7ZG3Emo2iPQ3dncpf3A
ON the left side it says"Download Saheeh Quran in PDF format"
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